The Men, The Men, Those Argentine Men...

Today at lunch my friend Trish told me I should write about my dating experiences in my blog.  I told her that I am tired of talking about my dating experiences. "But they are so funny." she said.  "You would make a lot of people laugh."  "I don't know, maybe. I will think about it."  I told her.

It has been a long time since I wrote about the men in my blog.  My two posts The Men The Men and The Men The Men What About The Men Revisted are my two most hit blog posts in Google.  Everyone wants to know about Argentine men.  I wrote those posts in 2006 about 2 years after I came to live here.  I wrote another post about a year later.

Now that I have been living here 7 years, I understand the culture, I speak the local dialect and understand it, things really have not changed too much.  I appreciate more my life in the Bay Area with regards to male female relationships.  I never realized how much back then I was treated as a person, than as an object.  Still today it is difficult to explain this to both Argentine men and to women.

The sexual revolution happened over a period of years in the states.  It was intellectual.  Here it happened via the Internet and it happened in a short period.  As an outsider I watched things change from the year 2000 until now. Most of the transformation was starting from 2006 until now.

If you think men in the states didn't cope with the changes of women in the workforce, women becoming independent, women earning their own money.  Come here.  It is a whole new ball game.  The sexuality gets mixed up.  It is very interesting as an outsider to this culture to watch it all and still try to date and be a part of it.  While I have adapted, there are still parts of me, that cannot adapt and probably never will.  It is what being an immigrant is all about.

Today in the restaurant there was a table of 3 men having a meeting behind us.  One man was overtly flirting with me.  Trish and I both noticed it.  He was nice looking.  He would turn around and smile at me.  He would get up walk around and smile at me.  He reminded me of Rafael Ferro who plays Victor Grande in the novela Un Año Para Recordar. 

He heard us speaking English and asked us where we were from.  I smiled at him and told him in Spanish I was from 8 blocks away and asked him where he was from.  He said close by.  So Argentine. To interrupt a business meeting to flirt with a woman.  Then I noticed his ring.  His wedding ring.  Game over.  On my side.

Trish and I continued our lunch.  I told her about some of my dates.  When men could care less about conversation.  They go on and on about how beautiful I am, my eyes, my lips.  I told her I find it so boring.  They don't want to make conversation with me.  After they hear "MY STORY" they only want to tell me how beautiful I am, because they figure the more times I hear it the faster they can push me into bed.  Only it doesn't work with me.  It bores me to death.  I know they would say this to any woman regardless of how she looks.  I am not special.

My American men friends or the other foreign men I know say that if they don't tell the Argentine woman at least 20 times during the date how great she looks she won't sleep with them.  Different cultures to be sure.

I want dialog.  To talk. Politics. Cinema, books, theater. I give her some examples of some conversations I have had with some men "Do you like movies?"  "Yeah, yeah, I like movies."  "What was the last movie you saw?"  "I don't don't remember, que hermoso ojos tenes."  When one man told me for the 10th time how beautiful I was, I told "I am beautiful inside."  He told me "I don't know that.  I could know you 20 years and not know that.  But I look at you now and I know you are beautiful." Sometimes I feel I am a clear example of women should be seen and not heard.  I never felt that way in the Bay Area.

Perhaps if I was from this culture I would find it charming and wonderful to always be told about the superficial.  But I am not.  I am from a culture that values different things.  That values intelligence, kindness, loyalty, sense of humor.  I spent too much time with geeks.

If you look around the restaurants women are not talking.  They are looking adoringly with vacant eyes at some guy while he talks.  OR no one is talking.  How boring.  I would rather be dancing.  A relationship is two people.  A least in tango I can interact.  I am not that desperate to have someone.  It is probably why I don't. 

The business meeting breaks up.  Mr. Victor Grande look alike comes to our table.  "I would like to have your phone number." he says to me.  I look him in the eye. "Señor, you are wearing a ring. you are married."  He looks at me. "No," he says, "I am not married."  "You are wearing a gold ring." I say to him as I point to his hand.  He looks at his hand as though he has never seen it before.

"This?" he says.  "This is not a ring." I look at Trish.  She speaks Spanish, and she is blown away, listening. "No?  Ahh, it's your mother's correct.?" He nods.  "Mejor, tu abuelo's" With that he rushes away, without even saying good bye.

Trish is appalled. "I can't believe it.  You are so fast." she says to me.  "I live here."  I tell her.  "I have to be.  Sometimes they don't even wear a ring.  You have to make sure they take you out on a Saturday night.  That you meet their friends, their family.  You have to go to their apartment.  Sometimes that isn't enough.  It can be hard work."

Trishe's eyes are wide.  "Wow!" she says, "You have taught me a lot."  She is still blown away by the Victor Grande look alike.  I am sure that there are some really nice guys here.  Somewhere.  I am still looking.

 

 

Comments

[Alexa]

I disagree with your comments completely. I think you are just like most American women -- unsatisfied and looking for a rainbow which can never be. Which is why divorce is still incredibly high in the US and there so many women and men remain single here too! Argentines love life,and they enjoy beauty (physical and mental beauty). Who says that men do not value women's intelligence there? Boy are you mistaken -- dead wrong. But, it may be hard for an American to grasp. You see, Argentine women exude their intelligence while they remain feminine and sexy. You see, this is quite possible to achieve! One thing does not exclude the other. After all, the population of Argentina and Buenos AIres in particular (cosmopolitan people), are highly educated and can easily discuss various subjects that do not stay within the borders of their country -- as in the US). Furthermore, Argentines are people that are in love with LOVE. Have you ever tried to listen to Tango lyrics? It is always about LOVE. Think about the dance itself. The closeness, the embrace, the unspoken flirtation, the idea of love making without actually doing it. You have to understand that Argentines are LOVERS of everything. Friends, family and strangers. Have you seen young couples kissing (openly) on the street? At a cafe? In a park? Holding each other ever so close. Have you seen the older couples walking and holding hands? Have you seen that they greet each other (friends), with a kiss and even a stranger with a kiss? Have you seen how they love children? Have you seen that they are a culture that enjoys close physical proximity, hugs, embraces, etc. etc. Have you seen that gay people can openly walk holding hands and no-one says anything? Have you seen straight females walking hand in hand or hugging in public without any problem? The culture does not assume they may be gay because of that. Argentines are PASSIONATE PEOPLE and MEN LIKE TO GIVE COMPLIMENTS TO WOMEN AND WOMEN LOVE TO HEAR THAT. IT MAKES THEM FEEL SPECIAL AND FEMININE. But Americans are not like that at all. Americans are not physical people and a compliment to a woman is assumed like "he wants to go to bed with me":.. Please get off your high horse and do not be so cynical. Argentines FLIRT and are GOOD AT IT. Take it in stride and just enjoy it . . . it is the one part of life in which your getting attention from a stranger should be celebrated! Otherwise come back to the Bay area and be happy that NO ONE will ever bother to make you feel special -- unless they are your friends.

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MY COMMENTS:

I love Internet Trolls...so sad..this email comes from Rhode Island via Verizon....

[CC]

Deby - you are amazing! Thanks to your blog, I have been enlightened about the behavior of the Argentine male and culture. I dated an Argentine for a while here in the US... let's just say that you helped me understand many areas about which I was confused. Thanks!!

P.S. Keep writing - you do GREAT, very interesting work!

[Esteban Buffagni]

Nice post. But I must disagree. It may happen that you simply go to the wrong places, or you may have had bad luck.
Assuming that women do not talk is a step forward to paradise, that unfortunately does not exist. Women talk, and most of them -like men of course- talk more than enough. Assuming that they will only go to bed if they are told they are beautiful is too much imagination.
Buenos Aires is a modern city, if you go to the important part. Gay people can get married, for example. They can adopt children. Showing a tit on TV is not national news. And we have a female president. Trust me, she talks a lot.
I love Americans and I actually work with them every day. But they are usually quite confused assuming that they are diversity lovers and the rest of the world is not.
We may say you are beautiful once in a while. It is nice to say, and it is nice to hear. Even if it is regardless of the way you look. That small detail is what makes it great.
******
Funny how the men always say how it isn't true what I write....and the women say..gracias..

[Pablo]

Of course there are nice men here, but not the chetos of Palermo. Do you want money? Ok, go out with them. Do you want love? Get out of that neighborhood.

[Sam]

It all certainly makes sense in a city in which millions of tiny leaflets posted weekly advertising, um, services, have come to be regarded as the national flower. speaks volumes to the pathetic clientele.

[gary andersen]

HI DEBI, GARY FROM DENVER. I STILL READ YOUR BLOG AND ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR WRITING. YOU WRITE SO WELL. WRITING IS DIFFICULT AND YOU HAVE A TALENT.